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Suggestion: make KudoZ answers anonymous to non-moderators
Thread poster: Luiza Kipper
Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT
Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 15:59
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Disagree Mar 11, 2015

Luiza Kipper wrote:
A simple solution to avoid bias, which is extremely damaging to the reliability of the KudoZ glossaries, would be to make KudoZ answers anonymous, at least before the best answer is chosen.

The whole point of Kudoz is that you need help from someone who A) gives very solid examples and/or B) you trust because successful answers (by that I mean answers that proved to be what the end customer needed) in the past and/or C) has solid credentials you can check.

If you hide answerer details, the asker will find it much harder to know whether the answer is plausible or sensible. When you ask or answer frequently in Kudoz, you get a pretty good idea of who is reliable and who you would not touch with a barge pole.


 
Carlos A R de Souza
Carlos A R de Souza  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 11:59
English to Portuguese
+ ...
A chicken and egg problem... Mar 12, 2015

I think people are missing the point. If a translator is highly credible but gives a wrong answer, does his/her answer become truer because he/she is credible? Conversely, if a translator has no credibility but answers accurately, is his/her answer wrong because (s)he is not credible?

This is also a chicken and egg problem. A translator should be seen as credible for providing correct answers. The accuracy of his/her answers should not be defined as correct or incorrect just
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I think people are missing the point. If a translator is highly credible but gives a wrong answer, does his/her answer become truer because he/she is credible? Conversely, if a translator has no credibility but answers accurately, is his/her answer wrong because (s)he is not credible?

This is also a chicken and egg problem. A translator should be seen as credible for providing correct answers. The accuracy of his/her answers should not be defined as correct or incorrect just based on credibility!

Allowing a 3rd party to decide what is right or wrong for you can be incredibly dangerous. Have you heard of the Milgram experiment? It's what happens when you give up thinking to trust authority, even when they are incredibly wrong. While the life-threatening consequences of the Milgram experiment probably won't cost your life, deeming answers as correct or wrong solely based on the prior credibility of the answering person can cost the job – and even the client! The way I see it, people on this thread are being overly emotive and setting up a dangerous precedent on their professional lives.
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Andy Watkinson
Andy Watkinson
Spain
Local time: 15:59
Member
Catalan to English
+ ...
Missing the point? Mar 12, 2015

Carlos A R de Souza wrote:
I think people are missing the point. If a translator is highly credible but gives a wrong answer, does his/her answer become truer because he/she is credible?


No it simply means they're not infallible.

It's the asker's job to research the answers but, ceteris paribus, they will be more inclined to accept the suggestion of a highly regarded colleague.

Conversely, if a translator has no credibility but answers accurately, is his/her answer wrong because (s)he is not credible?


Not necessarily wrong, but if they have "no credibility" it's simply because they consistently fail to understand the original, evidently have no knowledge of the subject matter, overrate their abilities and occasionally demonstrate an alarming ignorance of their own language. So, would you trust them?

Allowing a 3rd party to decide what is right or wrong for you can be incredibly dangerous.


Nobody is "deciding" for the asker. The asker decides.

Have you heard of the Milgram experiment?


Good night.


 
Christine Andersen
Christine Andersen  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 15:59
Member (2003)
Danish to English
+ ...
I look at all answers, and a lot of good ones come from newcomers Mar 12, 2015

I look at all answers and check them out. Newcomers' suggestions can be very good too.

However, the questions I ask often call for a discussion, like a recent question about a comparatively new word in the Danish language, which many people apparently had not heard of. (Synsning, used in the plural, synsninger.)

Two Norwegians answered, and the word had possibly been imported from Norway.
Here it was absolutely relevant that these contributers were Norwegians, and
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I look at all answers and check them out. Newcomers' suggestions can be very good too.

However, the questions I ask often call for a discussion, like a recent question about a comparatively new word in the Danish language, which many people apparently had not heard of. (Synsning, used in the plural, synsninger.)

Two Norwegians answered, and the word had possibly been imported from Norway.
Here it was absolutely relevant that these contributers were Norwegians, and their comments were most useful.

I can imagine that in other languages it is sometimes helpful to know which country people come from, not to mention my own target language, English.

Answers from colleagues from around the world can be enormously helpful as long as I know where the answerer comes from, but I sometimes need to check that their suggestions apply in the UK as well or find the UK equivalent.
A word that gets into the glossary might be 'wrong' if used in the wrong part of the world, but be perfectly valid in others, and in the asker's special context.

KudoZ is not a comprehensive lexicon, and you have to use it as it is. It is a supplement and different from all the other terminlogy sources.

The great majority of KudoZ users do so in good faith, and there are so many advantages in knowing who you are working with. That is what makes KudoZ different from IATE and all the other places you can search for terminology.

Finally, if anyone is actually misusuing KudoZ, please report them to the moderators.
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jyuan_us
jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:59
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
I don't see any cause-effect relationship in your entire post Mar 12, 2015

Luiza Kipper wrote:

I am starting to suspect that certain users are biased in that they tend to always agree with whoever agrees with them, regardless of the quality of the answer.

Now, I understand that this is expected to happen in a competitive system that is so open about who is posting the answers - but I do think this is very damaging to the quality of the glossaries.

I am avoiding to give thanks when users agree with my answer. I realize that they are not agreeing with ME, but rather with the answer I provided. Some users write things like "Thanks, friend!" when someone agrees with them and I think this is highly indicative of biased behavior, not politeness.

A simple solution to avoid bias, which is extremely damaging to the reliability of the KudoZ glossaries, would be to make KudoZ answers anonymous, at least before the best answer is chosen.

It's not about WHO answered, it's about THE ANSWER alone.

Thanks for the space to manifest my opinion.


And I don't see any validity in your argument (i.e. Keeping the names of the answers open would lead to biases) and your argument doesn't seem to support your own conclusion (i.e, such "biases" are extremely damaging to the reliability of the KudoZ glossaries).


 
magdadh
magdadh
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:59
Polish to English
+ ...
I think that the importance of the 'choice answer' is overestimated here... Mar 12, 2015

...as other USERS of the system point out above, it's the whole process, including the discussion and all the answers that are proposed, that makes kudoz a great resource, not the actual glossary entries or the specific answers chosen by askers.

I really have a feeling that it's about the (silly) points...


 
Sandra & Kenneth Grossman
Sandra & Kenneth Grossman  Identity Verified
Israel
Local time: 16:59
French to English
+ ...
Unwritten etiquette Mar 12, 2015

Luiza Kipper wrote:

I am avoiding to give thanks when users agree with my answer. I realize that they are not agreeing with ME, but rather with the answer I provided. Some users write things like "Thanks, friend!" when someone agrees with them and I think this is highly indicative of biased behavior, not politeness.


If someone took the trouble to look at my answer, possibly check my references or my explanations and expresses agreement, the least I can do is say thank you. That's all.

You seem to be over-reacting to the competitive element of the KudoZ environment by suspecting everybody of having ulterior motives.
Relax. KudoZ is fun.
Best regards,
Sandra


 
Carlos A R de Souza
Carlos A R de Souza  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 11:59
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Translator should always double-check... Mar 12, 2015

Andy Watkinson wrote:
Not necessarily wrong, but if they have "no credibility" it's simply because they consistently fail to understand the original, evidently have no knowledge of the subject matter, overrate their abilities and occasionally demonstrate an alarming ignorance of their own language. So, would you trust them?


Ultimately, it's up for the translator to judge the credibility of every answer, and they should always double-check their answers – even when it's from a credible source. It would be incredibly dangerous to blindly accept everyone's answer when it's the translator who has ultimate access to context and meaning.

I should also add that, while asking coleagues for an expression is incredibly useful, translators should invest in glossary books anyway. They tend to be checked far more rigorously.

[Edited at 2015-03-12 12:42 GMT]


 
Vero Nika
Vero Nika  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 15:59
English to Czech
+ ...
Anonymous - yes, likes based on mutual relationship of translators - no. Jul 14, 2015

Enrique Cavalitto wrote:

The KudoZ asker is expected to select the most helpful answer


Exactly. The most helpful answer, regardless of how many points it received. But if you ask a question, doesn't that mean that you don't know the answer and your choice often depends on how many people agree with each of the suggestions? Don't you think that there might be "friends" who like each other's posts?

I would appreciate anonymous answers as well. I hate to say this, but I've got the feeling that some people try to answer as many questions in as many languages/fields as they can without providing relevant context (i.e. links to technical equipment descriptions when the needed term is health/medical). There are people who don't even think about what they post because quantity is more important for them than quality. These definitely aren't the ones who'll double check the credibility of each answer.


 
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