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Kudoz-Contribute to this entry - What's the use?
Thread poster: Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT
belitrix
belitrix
Local time: 09:51
German to Italian
+ ...
perhaps proz.com has certain problems revising Sep 4, 2009

or they don't care. I care and have a certain interest in maintaining up-to-date the inventory of words retrievable on this site - and thanks for the help of my collegues...

[Bearbeitet am 2009-09-04 10:31 GMT]

[Bearbeitet am 2009-09-04 10:32 GMT]


 
Jared Tabor
Jared Tabor
Local time: 05:51
SITE STAFF
I'm not sure that's fair Sep 9, 2009

Hello belitrix,

To say staff doesn't care is a bit unfair, and is certainly not the case. Since these two topics seem to have gotten mixed, I have just posted on this at http://www.proz.com/post/1212556#1212556

Best regards,

Jared


 
belitrix
belitrix
Local time: 09:51
German to Italian
+ ...
Thanks, Jared, for your help in this question! Sep 9, 2009

Jared wrote:

Hello belitrix,

To say staff doesn't care is a bit unfair, and is certainly not the case. Since these two topics seem to have gotten mixed, I have just posted on this at http://www.proz.com/post/1212556#1212556

Best regards,

Jared


 
Veronica Martinez
Veronica Martinez  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 05:51
English to Spanish
+ ...
Also waiting for this feature.... Sep 22, 2009

Hi!

I answer KudoZ, and also do term searches, and I find that the glossaries are, sadly, very unreliable.

Lately I've been taking part in some threads that discuss unfair disagrees, KudoZ abuse or harassment, high CL in wrong answers, askers that don't read everything before grading, etc.
All these misuses end up in wrong glossary entries, which is a pity because there are some real professionals contributing to the KudoZ.

I learned that when I do a
... See more
Hi!

I answer KudoZ, and also do term searches, and I find that the glossaries are, sadly, very unreliable.

Lately I've been taking part in some threads that discuss unfair disagrees, KudoZ abuse or harassment, high CL in wrong answers, askers that don't read everything before grading, etc.
All these misuses end up in wrong glossary entries, which is a pity because there are some real professionals contributing to the KudoZ.

I learned that when I do a term search I have to keep my eyes wide open, but with the editing feature it could highly improve and many wrong entries could be identified.

Thanks!
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MMUlr
MMUlr  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 09:51
English to German
+ ...
Contribution to glossary entries still hidden (?) Nov 13, 2009

After having read this thread with Tomás' very important suggestion, and having entered a few more contributions to glossary entries that I found necessary to be made, I can state that
- contributions are still not visible (at least not to me ...?!)
- I still do not know WHO will ever read those contributions.

Is there anyone out there who reads or considers them?

Have a nice weekend, all of you ProZians,
Margret


 
Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT
Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 09:51
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Still no news... Nov 13, 2009

Unfortunately so far (since May 5th) no news about when this will be implemented. I think it is quite critical that bad entries are commented and that such comments are visible. It's just for the good of the whole community of users!

Please Proz staff! :-/


 
Ildiko Santana
Ildiko Santana  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 01:51
Member (2002)
Hungarian to English
+ ...

MODERATOR
KudoZ - Contribute to this entry - What's the use? Sep 21, 2010

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:

I sometimes use the "Contribute to this entry" feature to show my disagreement with Kudoz glossary entries that are clearly wrong. In many cases, other colleagues have shown their disagreement and the entry bears two or more disagreements.

If you do a search for a term in this situation in the Kudoz glossaries, you see the wrong term, and no indication whatsoever is given that colleagues have specifically disagreed and for what reasons. Upon revisiting the question the glossary entry derives from, no indication is given either about the disagreements or other comments about the glossary entry.

So now I wonder: What's the use of the "Contribute to this entry" function if specific, clear disagreements are never seen or reported about glossary entries?

I hereby suggest that the agreements/disagreements reported using this feature are visible in the question and in glossary searches!! Otherwise people in a rush will no doubt use the wrong translation seen in the glossary and will propagate clear mistakes.


Dear Staff,
I recently used the "Contribute to this entry" feature when an obviously incorrect translation was entered into the KudoZ open glossary, and started to wonder who will see such contributions, what's their use. I searched the forum archives for an answer and found this topic, but it looks like this issue has not been addressed yet. Could you kindly give us an update?
Thank you,
Ildiko


 
Enrique Cavalitto
Enrique Cavalitto  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 05:51
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
Update Sep 21, 2010

Hi Ildiko,

You are right, this issue has not been addressed yet. This is a matter of priorities and available resources. There are plans to implement a big KudoZ update in the near future and this issue is very likely to be included in this release.

Regards,
Enrique


 
Johanna Timm, PhD
Johanna Timm, PhD  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 01:51
English to German
+ ...
in the meantime... Sep 21, 2010

Whenever I "contribute to an entry", I also enter a respective note in the reference box to draw attention to it. Or I enter my "disagree" with the suggested and accepted answer(s) and point to the added contribution in the "peer comment" field.

Cheers,
johanna


 
Colin Ryan (X)
Colin Ryan (X)  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:51
Italian to English
+ ...
Proz staff should wake up. Sep 22, 2010

Terminology abuse via Kudoz is, IMHO, the single worst form of abuse on Proz. The site staff keep saying they'll do something about it, and it would be easy for them to do it; but frankly I won't hold my breath. It's long been made clear to me, by the moderators on Kudoz, that the highest priority of all is "not to offend people who carpet-bomb Kudoz with the faeces of Babelfish" (as I call this practice).

Kudoz rule 3.7 states:
Commentary on askers or answerers, and their
... See more
Terminology abuse via Kudoz is, IMHO, the single worst form of abuse on Proz. The site staff keep saying they'll do something about it, and it would be easy for them to do it; but frankly I won't hold my breath. It's long been made clear to me, by the moderators on Kudoz, that the highest priority of all is "not to offend people who carpet-bomb Kudoz with the faeces of Babelfish" (as I call this practice).

Kudoz rule 3.7 states:
Commentary on askers or answerers, and their postings or decisions to post, is not allowed. Comments or insinuations concerning an answerer’s or asker’s experience or profile, his/her decision to post a certain question or answer, grade or close a question in a certain way, make a certain glossary entry, etc., are strictly prohibited (whether posted publicly, made directly to the person in question, or made to another site user).

But there is no rule that says people can't fill Kudoz with cr*p in their insatiable quest for points.
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Enrique Cavalitto
Enrique Cavalitto  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 05:51
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
On ProZ.com priorities Sep 22, 2010

Hi ryancolm,

ProZ.com priorities are shaped by its guiding principles and rules .

In particular general rule #2 states that “Site users are expected to treat each other with courtesy, whether posting publicly or making direct contact, and are advised to act under the assumption of good faith. “ so not offending other users is a prio
... See more
Hi ryancolm,

ProZ.com priorities are shaped by its guiding principles and rules .

In particular general rule #2 states that “Site users are expected to treat each other with courtesy, whether posting publicly or making direct contact, and are advised to act under the assumption of good faith. “ so not offending other users is a priority, but it is not limited to any particular subset of users.

Please note that staff and moderators do not act as linguistic authorities, so no actions should be expected regarding answers that some user(s) may find not good enough.

Regards,
Enrique
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Colin Ryan (X)
Colin Ryan (X)  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:51
Italian to English
+ ...
My point exactly, Enrique... Sep 22, 2010

Enrique wrote:

In particular general rule #2 states that “Site users are expected to treat each other with courtesy, whether posting publicly or making direct contact, and are advised to act under the assumption of good faith. “ so not offending other users is a priority, but it is not limited to any particular subset of users.

Please note that staff and moderators do not act as linguistic authorities, so no actions should be expected regarding answers that some user(s) may find not good enough.

Regards,
Enrique


Yes, Enrique, I know all that, because a succession of well-meaning moderators has already pointed it out to me. I also know that there are people out there who are knowingly filling Kudoz with sh*t. I can name names for you, if you like. And those people are NOT treating the Kudoz community "with courtesy", as Rule 2 puts it. And they are definitely not acting "under the assumption of good faith". All they want is points, and they will post anything on Kudoz to get those points. And can I point out something to you, Enrique? The moderators actually ARE linguistic authorities. They're professional translators!!!

I know you're just doing your job, Enrique, so I don't have an axe to grind with you personally. I just think that the job you've been told to do is absolutely, utterly wrong. One day a civilian is going to look for a medical term in the Kudoz glossaries, see "embarazada" translated as "embarrassed", and deny some poor woman proper prenatal care.

I've had enough, and I will do what I have to do to change this situation.

[Edited at 2010-09-22 15:28 GMT]


 
Enrique Cavalitto
Enrique Cavalitto  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 05:51
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
Moderators do not act as linguistic authorities in ProZ.com. Sep 22, 2010

ryancolm wrote:

Enrique wrote:

In particular general rule #2 states that “Site users are expected to treat each other with courtesy, whether posting publicly or making direct contact, and are advised to act under the assumption of good faith. “ so not offending other users is a priority, but it is not limited to any particular subset of users.

Please note that staff and moderators do not act as linguistic authorities, so no actions should be expected regarding answers that some user(s) may find not good enough.

Regards,
Enrique


Yes, Enrique, I know all that, because a succession of well-meaning moderators has already pointed it out to me. I also know that there are people out there who are knowingly filling Kudoz with sh*t. I can name names for you, if you like. And those people are NOT treating the Kudoz community "with courtesy", as Rule 2 puts it. And they are definitely not acting "under the assumption of good faith". All they want is points, and they will post anything on Kudoz to get those points. And can I point out something to you, Enrique? The moderators actually ARE linguistic authorities. They're professional translators!!!


If you look at the overview of the ProZ.com moderator program you will find the following:

    Although an attempt is made to select competent professionals, neither advanced industry knowledge nor exceptional linguistic ability are screened for in the moderator selection process. Therefore, nothing about the program assumes moderators to be superior to non-moderator members in these respects.


The role of moderators involve primarily the enforcement of the site's rules in a consistent and structured manner and to "greet and guide" site users. Moderators do not act as linguistic authorities in ProZ.com.

Regards,
Enrique


 
philgoddard
philgoddard
United States
German to English
+ ...
I agree with Ryan. Sep 22, 2010

We all know who he's referring to, and that person (since they're not being named) can safely be described as the KudoZ village idiot. But if anyone dares to point this out, down comes the censor's iron fist.

If anything, he's the one abusing the rules of KudoZ by filling it up with useless junk. Of course personal abuse and name-calling should be prohibited, but there's far too much censorship on ProZ.

I recently responded to a call for moderators by saying that I wo
... See more
We all know who he's referring to, and that person (since they're not being named) can safely be described as the KudoZ village idiot. But if anyone dares to point this out, down comes the censor's iron fist.

If anything, he's the one abusing the rules of KudoZ by filling it up with useless junk. Of course personal abuse and name-calling should be prohibited, but there's far too much censorship on ProZ.

I recently responded to a call for moderators by saying that I wouldn't mind being one, but I couldn't enforce rules that I felt were unfair. Ironically, my response itself got deleted by the censors.

[Edited at 2010-09-22 17:53 GMT]
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Ildiko Santana
Ildiko Santana  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 01:51
Member (2002)
Hungarian to English
+ ...

MODERATOR
a suggestion Sep 22, 2010

philgoddard wrote:
We all know who he's referring to (...) abusing the rules of KudoZ by filling it up with useless junk.


I don't think we should treat this as an isolated incident or point fingers at any particular individual. I also don't think that entering incorrect translations into the KudoZ glossary is in violation of any site rule. Answerers are free to suggest anything they believe to be correct and askers are free to select the translations they find suitable, it's their prerogative. The problem comes when these incorrect translations are entered into the glossary. What I was getting at is to try to find a way, for the sake of future users of the glossary, to display disagreement with incorrect terms or, better yet, to disallow such entries ever making it into the glossary. Similarly to questions abandoned by the asker where the answer with 2 or more net 'agree's automatically gets selected, there could be a way to allow glossary entires *only* if the term received 2 ore more net 'agree's. This way, askers can still choose wrong answers (their problem) but such wrong answers won't come up in future glossary searches (everyone's gain).
What do you think?


 
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